There sure are a lot of Bad BOR games...

KanbeiKS7

KanbeiKS7

New member
Hear me out I am well aware there are some amazing games made for this engine Like the TMNT fan project and many more. but lately I noticed (At least when Youtube recommends me BOR Projects.) I see stuff that has way little to no effort in them. It makes me sad as a fellow creator to see this, I want to tell the people who make these why bother. If people put there hearts in something it can come out good. But that's my take your thought boys?
 
My advice is try to learn everyday and practice (some part of code or sprites). Maybye some creators need assistance and they shouldn't hesitate to ask.
I will help and respond the best as I can.
 
KanbeiKS7 said:
Hear me out I am well aware there are some amazing games made for this engine Like the TMNT fan project and many more. but lately I noticed (At least when Youtube recommends me BOR Projects.) I see stuff that has way little to no effort in them. It makes me sad as a fellow creator to see this, I want to tell the people who make these why bother. If people put there hearts in something it can come out good. But that's my take your thought boys?
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I don't really understand why you write this ??
From the beginning on all engine there are good and bad games. And good games for me are not good games for you ...
On my Youtube channel i have began to share a top 100, the games i like and i've fixed to work on Batocera with build 612. I must share them here too.
But it's subjective, we have work on team and i don't like some games of the top 100 that some members love.
But for sure we have work to make them technically good to use.
Like write @kimono some members here are helping if you ask them. But moders must ask for it.

Now i have began myself to create games, i wish people will love them, but i can't be sure ...
Let moders make games like they want and only choose games that you like ;)
 
Uhm... welcome to Earth. You came from the Mugen community, and you're somehow surprised to find a proliferation of low tier output elsewhere? That's human nature across all things, amateur, professional, and otherwise. I'll defer to one of my favorite authors, the late, great Voltaire:

Vous avez lu des choses bien méprisables, lui dit le sage lettré; mais dans tous les temps, dans tous les pays, et dans tous les genres, le mauvais fourmille, et le bon est rare. Vous avez reçu chez vous le rebut de la pédanterie, parceque, dans toutes les professions, ce qu'il y a de plus indigne de paraître est toujours ce qui se présente avec le plus d'impudence.
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Roughly translated:

You see some awful things said the scholar; but in all times, in all countries, and in all genres, the bad overwhelms, and the good is rare. You have taken the rubbish of pedantry, because in all professions what is most unworthy of appearing is always what presents itself with great impudence.
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This isn't a poor reflection on the creators as people. It just represents the reality that it's very rare for the right combination of talent, knowledge, time, and resources to colelese. Doubly so when there's no economic incentive. Assuming those things do come together, you will get quality results. However, as another member pointed out, subjectivity still comes into play, so not everyone will like it.

Then of course you have people who passionately support objectively poor works (bad offsets, glitched colors, poor hit detection, etc.). Maybe they like the source material or they're friends with the creator. Maybe it's just Rule 41. Whatever the reason, they're opinions and therefore not intrinsically wrong, even if most of us disagree.

TL;DR: If you don't like it, don't play it. Perhaps leave a detailed review and explain why.

DC
 
KanbeiKS7 said:
Hear me out I am well aware there are some amazing games made for this engine Like the TMNT fan project and many more. but lately I noticed (At least when Youtube recommends me BOR Projects.) I see stuff that has way little to no effort in them. It makes me sad as a fellow creator to see this, I want to tell the people who make these why bother. If people put there hearts in something it can come out good. But that's my take your thought boys?
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To be honest, this kind of post doesn't help too much.

First, there's good and bad games for all engines, it's not exclusive to OpenBOR. Even big devs with a huge amount of people working on it, can make bad rated games (it can be easily seen on Steam).

Second, if you really want to help the creators to improve your games, you need to address your feedback directly to them, showing what you want to be improved. Generic posts addressed to an entire community didn't help because it doesn't contain specific information about what needs to be improved and what game needs it.

And last, if you don't want to help and don't like the game, you can simply ignore it.
 
I've never in my life played Mugen game that came even close to a mid tier quality OpenBor game, 500 characters and so many special effects on the screen you can barely see what's going on does not equal a good game but that's all I ever see in Mugen, It's been around for over 20 years and you can't even do basic stage interactions, I've never even seen an old classic like Street Fighter 2 recreated/reimagined well in Mugen

@KanbeiKS7 I know you're not bashing OpenBor and I'm not trying to make a comparison to Mugen because that's not even debatable at this point but it is a weird point you're making especially since you have a Mugen background.

If I did the math I reckon OpenBor probably has the least amount of bad games available compared to all the other game engines.
 
DCurrent said:
Uhm... welcome to Earth. You came from the Mugen community, and you're somehow surprised to find a proliferation of low tier output elsewhere? That's human nature across all things, amateur, professional, and otherwise. I'll defer to one of my favorite authors, the late, great Voltaire:



Roughly translated:



This isn't a poor reflection on the creators as people. It just represents the reality that it's very rare for the right combination of talent, knowledge, time, and resources to colelese. Doubly so when there's no economic incentive. Assuming those things do come together, you will get quality results. However, as another member pointed out, subjectivity still comes into play, so not everyone will like it.

Then of course you have people who passionately support objectively poor works (bad offsets, glitched colors, poor hit detection, etc.). Maybe they like the source material or they're friends with the creator. Maybe it's just Rule 41. Whatever the reason, they're opinions and therefore not intrinsically wrong, even if most of us disagree.

TL;DR: If you don't like it, don't play it. Perhaps leave a detailed review and explain why.

DC
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Well said, and I agree I probably should leave detail reviews instead of complaining about it. All of you guys made very valid points and yes I should know better I come from the Mugen community lol
 
I have been there, even my mod is garbage compared to most of the projects that I have seen. But don't worry, there're lot of mods here that are really worth it!
 
Using the sample size provided by the site (92 games), if we use the community scores to judge quality, we can see that only 43 games scored 4-5 stars which is a little under half the total games. When even the people who like OpenBOR games think that a game being good or bad is down to a coin flip, that's bad. Numerically speaking and comparing all game engines ever there are virtually no bad games on the engine but, if we look at it statistically and/or include subjectivity (because no one can name 40+ good BOR games) then in fact "There sure are a lot of bad BOR games".
 
Isn't coding Openbor one of the main problems? I've ran into several comments over the years in a number of different threads mentioning how difficult it is to program.

When compared to Mugen there's a lot of creativity when programming characters. There's just a lack of variety with Openbor projects. I've seen a Castlevania platformer a few years ago. I have yet to see a game that mimics Guardian Heroes, Monster Mauler, Ninjawarriors or Power Rangers. I'm not a coder but I think Openbor can offer so much more.

But one thing I do admire with the Openbor community is they don't quit so easily. Mugen coders just come and go like the wind.
 
@danno
there is a mortal kombat trilogy-based game for mugen that features hazards & destructible elements, its one of the most complex & well made games i have experienced on it, only thing missing is the team elimination of the N64. MUGEN/IKEMEN needs to be re-done tho, it needs to become a basic 3D engine of sorts so it can handle stuff seen in newer fighting titles better

@rgveda99
Scripting is hard for people with below average or low experince, and scripts that would feature 2.5D effects like "mode 7" or simple poly-texture floors & walls & sprite z axis scaling (guardian heroes) , realtime entity & hitbox rotation, stretching, deforming (yoshi´s island morphmation) will need lots of maths, because what you´d be doing is forcing openbor to work as a basic 3D engine, we are talking about Doom 95 basic, if not Wolfenstein.

Unlike unreal engine or Unity, the masters of this community are very few i´d dare say not even beyond 20, on the other hand, i have heard (cant confirm) that unreal engine has hundreds of people that can assist, if you get past a bit beyond the basics.... reason why is because aftera certain threshold of success, if your indie game makes big bucks, unreal gets a cut of your revenue.

now that i think about it, it would be a good source for scripting if a hardcore fan of Doom programming could make an openbor doom
 
oldyz said:
@danno
there is a mortal kombat trilogy-based game for mugen that features hazards & destructible elements, its one of the most complex & well made games i have experienced on it, only thing missing is the team elimination of the N64. MUGEN/IKEMEN needs to be re-done tho, it needs to become a basic 3D engine of sorts so it can handle stuff seen in newer fighting titles better

@rgveda99
Scripting is hard for people with below average or low experince, and scripts that would feature 2.5D effects like "mode 7" or simple poly-texture floors & walls & sprite z axis scaling (guardian heroes) , realtime entity & hitbox rotation, stretching, deforming (yoshi´s island morphmation) will need lots of maths, because what you´d be doing is forcing openbor to work as a basic 3D engine, we are talking about Doom 95 basic, if not Wolfenstein.

Unlike unreal engine or Unity, the masters of this community are very few i´d dare say not even beyond 20, on the other hand, i have heard (cant confirm) that unreal engine has hundreds of people that can assist, if you get past a bit beyond the basics.... reason why is because aftera certain threshold of success, if your indie game makes big bucks, unreal gets a cut of your revenue.

now that i think about it, it would be a good source for scripting if a hardcore fan of Doom programming could make an openbor doom
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Would've be nice to see those special effects like Olrox's second form or some of the death animation from Castlevania Symphony Of The Night but I think its just too much for coders.

A feature to earn experience points and and unlock abilities like Battle Circuit after a boss battle or character select screen would be nice.

The real time level up system is a major improvement.
 
rgveda99 said:
Would've be nice to see those special effects like Olrox's second form or some of the death animation from Castlevania Symphony Of The Night but I think its just too much for coders.
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Ow, his first form should be easy to replicate :cool: but his second form and gigantic armors from previous series are tough 😖. I'm not sure where to start 🙄.

rgveda99 said:
A feature to earn experience points and and unlock abilities like Battle Circuit after a boss battle or character select screen would be nice.

The real time level up system is a major improvement.
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Battle Circuit uses currency to purchase abilities 🪙. Nonetheless, unlocking/buying abilities is doable. Rise of Warduke has some abilities unlocked by completing certain quests.
 
In fact, to do a good job of openbor games,
should find a way
export arcade game data,
such as strike effects,
In the original game, the time data of each animation playing.

Copy the data into openbor. game is perfect
 
For the development of openbor, we
I think we should figure out a way
How to export arcade game data,
create a database,
Let the newcomers learning to make games,
Data is always available. Openbor junk games will be reduced in the future
 
hello. this thread would be controversial,In mugen I seen around years same character made by different people instead make non converted characters like Heidern 95,the latest WIP was another SFA3 Rainbow mika. I am not bashing creators,just I think those creators foccuss to make new stuff. I seen cool original creations like Steve Minecraft or Peppa Pig.
About openbor, is less complex than Mugen in code terms and tools. About Openbor games releases, just they release and that is all,some can be very good as one Ikari Warriors bor, great as He Man or Avengers one. People got learn and improves.
 
Hannah Montana said:
About openbor, is less complex than Mugen in code terms and tools.
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...I'm afraid you're living in opposite land @Hannah Montana. This statement was true in the late 2000's, but not any more. Not by a long shot. So far as sophistication and capability goes, OpenBOR outgrew Mugen by an order of magnitude years ago. This is not to say OpenBOR is "better", because it's an apples to oranges comparison, but it is the "big" brother of the two in terms of scope.

OpenBOR can literately reproduce absolutely any in game functionality imaginable and just about any graphic effect short of running polygonal assets. The only thing it can't do out of the box is pixel shading, and even then you can approximate it with light sourcing. You can even do full scale vs. fighters in OpenBOR, although there's not much point in it. Want a six button, HD fighter with pixel precise collision, frame level timing and 200+ seizure inducing particles? You can do that, and in fact could theoretically have more particle effects on screen than Mugen because OpenBOR is more efficient at handling multiple objects.

I don't say any of this as a competitive jab at Mugen - far from it. There's no point in making Mugen style games in OpenBOR when Mugen is already a thing. What I am saying is the crutch excuse that OpenBOR is too simple an engine or whatnot is total BS. Saying it's too hard is also patently ridiculous, or at the very least shows a lack of perspective. OpenBOR has one of the lowest, if not the lowest entry barriers of any fully functional open ended engine in existence.

TLDR: If you can't make a good game with OpenBOR, you can't make a good game period. No shame in that (see my above post on the reasons why not everyone can do it).

DC
 
DC current is right. I did not try to say if openbor is better or not than mugen,both are diferent engines,however mugen has not a recently update engine, still are people stays with the 1.0 versión since ikemen or 1.1 got certain problems.
 
rgveda99 said:
Isn't coding Openbor one of the main problems? I've ran into several comments over the years in a number of different threads mentioning how difficult it is to program.

When compared to Mugen there's a lot of creativity when programming characters. There's just a lack of variety with Openbor projects. I've seen a Castlevania platformer a few years ago. I have yet to see a game that mimics Guardian Heroes, Monster Mauler, Ninjawarriors or Power Rangers. I'm not a coder but I think Openbor can offer so much more.

But one thing I do admire with the Openbor community is they don't quit so easily. Mugen coders just come and go like the wind.
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I Disagree 100% with this statement.
I am a proof myself being a guy who tries not to rely on coding scripts to do stuff with the engine core mechanics and Most of the times I get the job done pretty faithfully. Would love to see those comment saying OpenBOR is difficult to work with, in fact, they fact that there are mods that has almost no effort put into them is also proof that anyone that can make a random character and insert him/her into a single stage, say it's a rough demo and call it a day.

You should really take a look at my projects where I replicate the KIller Instinct combos system pretty faithfully, something I have yet to see in Mugen. Maybe it's already done? Hope it is, 'cause KI is a wonderful game.
 
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