In Progress Night Slashers X variants - Help the AI wants to %@?$ me - edition 1.31

[machok]

Any version with Hong hua as character?

 

[oldyz]

machok

not yet, Life of End/Dexcameta is taking a crack at it, i tries to do it but failed miserably -

 

[machok]

oldyz
Ahh Thanks yes I saw Life of End on Youtube about a week ago.
is there something specific that makes hong hua difficult to include? Why hasn't anyone done it?

 

[oldyz]

oldyz
Ahh Thanks yes I saw Life of End on Youtube about a week ago.
is there something specific that makes hong hua difficult to include? Why hasn't anyone done it?

Well, it seems that the original mod's creator , Bonus JZ, ran out of time or had no time, then the game sat abandoned for a long time, some people updated some scripts here & there to make it run with newer builds, added some characters (see the chinese videos in this thread) & personally , i think it is a bit hard to adapt her to the new mechanics of the game, somethings don't fit with her - for example, it seems that she is an user of magic, her power-ups in the original Arcade involves thunder, fire, an energy spear - so the new mechanics in the game involve weapons like shotguns, chainsaws, AR15.
So it would be like Batman using firearms, Or Dr strange using Iron-man tech.
I have a lot of difficulty getting my head around creating characters & BonusJZ's characters involve weird files that can't be opened with openborstats

I tried by making clone of Jasmine & modifying hitboxes, etc - but the results where not good - the throws look bad & the slams where also out of character.
Finally there is the issue of what to do about her power-ups - she can use Axes & throw Barrels, but when it comes to shotguns, machine guns & chainsaw I think that it would be best for her to have a script where if she hits a barrel, those weapons get replaced with
nunchuks, (new weapon based on double dragon mechanics/scripting)
the thunder sphere (like the arcade),  https://flyers.arcade-museum.com/?page=flyer&db=videodb&id=2874&image=2
and a Shaolin Xinyiba  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTWFW_s9spk that breaks after some use

finally, the 3 OG heroes are pretty much defined, Chris is a vampire Hunter, and thus he Uses any weapon & fighting style.
Jake is a Cyborg & seems that he will not waste the opportunity to use bombs & machine guns just for the hell of it,
but Hong Hua is more like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcSapLp301U&t=496s

 

[machok]

Well, it seems that the original mod's creator , Bonus JZ, ran out of time or had no time, then the game sat abandoned for a long time, some people updated some scripts here & there to make it run with newer builds, added some characters (see the chinese videos in this thread) & personally , i think it is a bit hard to adapt her to the new mechanics of the game, somethings don't fit with her - for example, it seems that she is an user of magic, her power-ups in the original Arcade involves thunder, fire, an energy spear - so the new mechanics in the game involve weapons like shotguns, chainsaws, AR15.
So it would be like Batman using firearms, Or Dr strange using Iron-man tech.
I have a lot of difficulty getting my head around creating characters & BonusJZ's characters involve weird files that can't be opened with openborstats

yeah all I know this module is old and legend
for the first maybe just use the original moves no need to use new weapons

I tried by making clone of Jasmine & modifying hitboxes, etc - but the results where not good - the throws look bad & the slams where also out of character.
Finally there is the issue of what to do about her power-ups - she can use Axes & throw Barrels, but when it comes to shotguns, machine guns & chainsaw I think that it would be best for her to have a script where if she hits a barrel, those weapons get replaced with
nunchuks, (new weapon based on double dragon mechanics/scripting)
the thunder sphere (like the arcade),  https://flyers.arcade-museum.com/?page=flyer&db=videodb&id=2874&image=2
and a Shaolin Xinyiba  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTWFW_s9spk that breaks after some use

finally, the 3 OG heroes are pretty much defined, Chris is a vampire Hunter, and thus he Uses any weapon & fighting style.
Jake is a Cyborg & seems that he will not waste the opportunity to use bombs & machine guns just for the hell of it,
but Hong Hua is more like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcSapLp301U&t=496s

wow I just noticed a duet movement between hong hua and the cyborg that seems tricky to apply but I like how you seriously learn the move style from the real source

 

[Bloodbane]

it would be best for her to have a script where if she hits a barrel, those weapons get replaced with nunchuks, (new weapon based on double dragon mechanics/scripting)

Her = Hong Hua right?

Anyways, why not make those weapons exclusive for Hong Hua? Chris and Jake won't be able to pick the weapon if they don't have respective weapon model.

I just noticed a duet movement between hong hua and the cyborg that seems tricky to apply

Duo attack is easier to code than the aura IMO cause it'd only need simple check before the attack could be performed.
I'm not sure how to perform duo slam however I know how to perform duo jumpattack or I'd rather call it: boosted jumpattack.

 

[oldyz]

....
Her = Hong Hua right?

Anyways, why not make those weapons exclusive for Hong Hua? Chris and Jake won't be able to pick the weapon if they don't have respective weapon model.

Well at first i was thinking that if She is the one who hits the barrel , her weapon "equivalents" should drop,  but in keeping with the spirit of multiple players in cooperation, i think that just adding her weapons to the randomizer script & making them exclusive should work fine.

This does become a problem if She is used in single player mode tho, but in that case Bloodbane, i think a script that eliminates chances for non-Hong Hua weapons to appear if she is the only character around should fix it, the question is would i need to add this to the randomizer script, or will it need another script or comnand line sript?

example - if the only player that is present is Hong Hua - the chances of the AR15 riffle to appear are 0%

Duo attack is easier to code than the aura IMO cause it'd only need simple check before the attack could be performed.
I'm not sure how to perform duo slam however I know how to perform duo jumpattack or I'd rather call it: boosted jumpattack.

Those boosted jump moves,  would like to bring back to the game - the double slam does seem  like a pain to code tho
The moving auras are kind of Unnecessary since those original moves are now performed using button combinations, but the mechanics for them are still needed for Characters like Ash & his "rumbling" chainsaw charge up.

Also , i think that if where to re-introduce the "moving Auras", they would be better suited to to charge up & activate the Secondary special moves Like Christopher's "Power Storm" in this way, activating the move is not just pressing the Special button, you have actively avoid enemies while charging to pull such powerful move on them...

 

[DCurrent]

oldyz & Bloodbane

On weapon use...

It's a bit more work, but one route you could take is the differential expertise approach. Just because Hong Hua is a "martial artist" doesn't mean she's not going to use a gun. Unless they're some Hollywood David Caradine knockoff pacifist (and she clearly isn't since she's attacking monsters), any self-respecting martial artist uses whatever they can get their hands on for an advantage - that's kind of the point.

Now, maybe she doesn't have the proper training to handle firearms, and you can reflect that one or more ways:

• Less damage to reflect poorer accuracy.
• Lower effective range.
• Big recoil delay after she fires.
• Doesn't fire, but can throw it away as a one shot projectile.

Same goes the other way with weapons like nunchaku. Sure, you need specialized training to do precise forms and combinations, but anyone can swing them at something and make it hurt.

Just my thoughts. Carry on gents...
DC

 

[oldyz]

Damon Caskey
that would work well, but now it's got me wondering how to implement  "shaky" bullet trajectories for the ar15.
Shotgun is a bit obvious that after she fires the recoil might knock it out of her hands or make her fall on her butt, it would be fun to even have more
than one possiblity of outcome (fires & shotgun goes flying back, a reaction animation or a bit of a stun, the fall on no particular order)
Chainsaw, She cant get it to turn on & uses it as a blunt object...
It also would be fun to see Jake badly miss-handling the nunchaku in some instances (like a hit to the face)

 

[Die_In_Fire]

I don’t see why is such an issue adding Hong Hua.
She’s from the original game. Ash is not from that game, his sprites clashes with the rest, but he’s still in this version.

Besides, inexperienced people had got guns and chainsaw to work. she’s not aiming at a target at 100 meters away. It’s a game about ur killing monsters, pretty sure she can handle some weapons.
If by her philosophy or principle you decide she should not carry a firearm, then just make her ignore that particular model weapon.

 

[danno]

Any version with Hong hua as character?

I'm making a version with her, she's around 40% done at this point, she'll be portable too so oldyz can implement her into his version.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUuz-vu_wJs

is there something specific that makes hong hua difficult to include? Why hasn't anyone done it?

Yes she's awkward, I think the original guys at DataEast didn't give her the same time and attention as they did the other characters, all her animations are off and weird and she just seems...different

for example

she's the shortest character with one of the furthest opening ranges

in her animations her weight shifts all over the place and just looks weird especially her run, she goes from feeling like a small dainty princess to a nightclub doorman/bouncer so there was a lot to fix before even starting and I remember Bonujz telling me she has less sprites than the other cast so even harder to work with, that's why he dropped her and replaced her with Jasmine, his system is much more complicated than the original arcade version and Hong would of been too much work.

As far as weapons go I have no problem with her using weapons, we already have a vampire slayer using an assault rifle and a cyborg who already has guns in his arms using guns so a priestess using a grenade seems pretty fun to me, I plan on adding an additional weapon (walking laser beam canon)

The difficulty with Hong is also emulating BonusJz's style of play, I've seen other people try creating Hong but in their own style and she doesn't fit at all, Bonusjz's methods were genius at the time of creating Night Slashers and I'm trying to balance that and optimizing her because theirs much simpler ways to do things now due to engine upgrades without changing the feel of the game.

EDIT:

I just wanting to show you guys how awkward she looks in her own game hahaha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2km61y0p0tg

 

[machok]

danno
Frankly speaking, I'm not too familiar with the original night slasher system but I wonder why someone hasn't put her back in the game so thanks for the detail explanation
her style of fighting is kind of traditional whether this becomes outdated with other characters or something
Looks like this is going to take a little extra hard work I hope you can do it well and I agree with nsw25 idea she can be a fast character in the game without too much change to the original system

 

[oldyz]

Die_In_Fire
Ash is there because i wanted to add a 4th character as a super extra & the only extra thing, originally the game was to be released with no extras at all, it was just the old version of the game & wide-screen - no new parallax, no music, no better AI -

Damon Caskey, Die_In_Fire, danno

Hong might not be Batman level against guns, but i don't think it is her preferred choice.
She is more like the Ancient one from Doctor Strange - Or like Doc strange himself -
some might think John Constantine - but i think Cristopher fills that role already.

The little  bit of backstory we have on her are the introduction scene, & her ending from the OG arcade game
her intro stablishes that she decimates monsters using Thunder, she uses the Phoneix Sun & that seems to be very powerful & the ending shows her training her sister on how to do spells...

So there is options from easiest to hardest.

1 - Don't allow her to pick up some weapons

2 - Make the game eliminate those weapons for her if she is the one who hits the barrel



3 Allow her to use them  but they work different
Easiest
One solution would be for her to imbue magical properties/enhancements to Ar15, chainsaw , shotgun
- but i can't imagine what those new properties would be...

some thoughts on them..
She tosses grenades but they sprout fire wings, they become like seeker missiles
AR15 transmutes into a serpentine fire dragon
Shotgun .... i have nothing
but i do have a problem with transmutation tho, it kind of breaks the "logic" of the thing & Ash Williams is the only one that gets to do that

Hardest - Difference in skill, random  malfunctions/mismanagement

game-play
danno glad it was not my imagination, she does feel like odd one out in the OG arcade & i think that feeling should carry on
nsw25
correct, i thought that the easiest way to get her back in the game was to just emulate her original game-style, but emphasize on speed & have her handle magic usage a bit better -

Note - some of this stuff will Also apply to Ash at some point - AR15 - Shotgun - are the hardest things to figure out
- grenade its not hard - Chainsaw is going to be fun - Barrel is also going to be fun -

 

[danno]

she wouldnt be too bad if you made her the fastest character, and in exchange each move does less damage and/or she has less HP (but more MP perhaps?)

Good points, my version of night slashers doesn't have an MP mechanic so I'll leave that up tp oldyz to tweak in his version, I'll finish Hong Hua in about a week so expect an update from oldyz not long after that.

this is going to take a little extra hard work

definitely is

remember when you were younger and you tried keeping the football in the air for as long as possible?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FC0_AQc8SwY

 

[Bloodbane]

Those boosted jump moves,  would like to bring back to the game - the double slam does seem  like a pain to code tho

I've tried it and like I said, it works  8).
Double slam might require extra work since it involves another character in the slam but I'm sure it's possible.

...the mechanics for them are still needed for Characters like Ash & his "rumbling" chainsaw charge up.

Hmmm.... could Ash's chainsaw be charged like Ralf's Galactica Phantom?

remember when you were younger and you tried keeping the football in the air for as long as possible?

That video reminds me to Lt Linn Kurosawa instead.

 

[machok]

Wow that's nice, how much limit to do the head stomp?

 

[oldyz]

....

Hmmm.... could Ash's chainsaw be charged like Ralf's Galactica Phantom?
..

No, that would be an entire different move - its hard to illustrate without an animation - basically you should be able to move around while charging up (like the auras on the other characters in the original arcade) but instead of aura is the chainsaw revving up to maximum accelaration  & smoking for the "dragon punch" type move -
Boosted jump - let me know what is needed to put in back in the game.

I also have a bit of a problem - i need for an entity to inherit the palette of the entity that spawned it....

 

[danno]

Wow that's nice, how much limit to do the head stomp?

no no no no no no no no no no no no there's noooo limit 

oldyz check your PM for the palette problem

 

[kimono]

Everyone has different hobbies like jumping into zombies head or making a nunchaku with a destroyed bench in Shadows of Death.
This is what I like with Openbor, anything is possible .
Hong Hua is a great addition to the game, I hope she will have another good moves like that .

 

[darknior]

WOAW so many news here ... thanks a lot