Demo-Pak 2

CRxTRDude

CRxTRDude

Member
I'm going to shift to a newer post. This will now be called the 'Demo-Pak'. So called, because the aim here became so different from the Neo Edit Pack 2, which I will make a new post for it. For history purposes, here's the OP:



Hey again guys, I want to do something for the people. I'm still making some stuff on the side aside from my comic (Nikki Shore).

One of which is -probably- a game based on Nikki, second a BOR remake which enhances various stuff and replacing/adding features from BOR to OpenBOR (fixes like the hole and the elevator scene)

And the last one is what I'm adding here right now, a newer version of the previously released Neo Edit Pack by DC which was a very good package for people who want to make their own OpenBOR mod.

What I was thinking was adding new sample levels from the already released 8 levels showing various features to study and base upon. Aside from that, i fixed the holes there, and will be making more changes.

I will also make a more neater help file (probably in PDF or HTML) that has a browsable index (more like the BOR Wiki)

I want opinions of what feature from OpenBOR needed as a sample level.

Here is a partial list (including what the Neo Edit Pack had in it as well):
-> Holes
-> Mirrors for panels
-> Neon for panels
-> Screen mode
-> 3 water modes
-> A full level (based on the first level of BOR

-> *NEW* Working elevator scene (based on BOR)
-> *TBC* Enemy spawn

I aim to make this for the community, for the new people like myself who are noobs to this community and want to learn.
 
I've been working on a new Help File for a while, you can build off the one I started.

I wanted to update Neo_edit Pack as well at one point too. Apart from example levels,  IMO it would be better to add more comments to .TXT files, like some of the original examples had.



 
Let's see ...

BeasTie said:
I've been working on a new Help File for a while, you can build off the one I started.

I wanted to update Neo_edit Pack as well at one point too. Apart from example levels,  IMO it would be better to add more comments to .TXT files, like some of the original examples had.
Click to expand...

@BeasTie - It's nice if you can share it! What program you used for it?

The plan is to merge the Fugue and Bloodbane's version with the current OpenBORWiki version of the manual, alibiet adding an index and making things neat.

Regarding the comments on the files, that's a great idea and what I planned to do then. They need organization indeed.

crusoe371 said:
Will the Bor edit pack work on the Win7? Or is it just for XP
Click to expand...

@crusoe371 -  if OpenBOR works on a platform, this should work (which can be a multitude from Windows to Android). Specifically, this is actually designed with Android compatibility in mind (specifically ericavd101's build).

Die_In_Fire said:
It would be great to have both the bloodBane's manual and the obor wiki as downloable files too.
Click to expand...

@Die_In_Fire - as I said above, I'm merging stuff into a definitive helpfile and I hope it can be useful for beginners as well as pros.
 
Die_In_Fire said:
It would be great to have both the bloodBane's manual and the obor wiki as downloable files too.
Click to expand...

There is a problem with that: The manual is way more updated than Wiki, but Wiki has better examples of codes. I am in charge of updating the Manual (in fact, the Wiki too), and I constantily do that (I need to update the wiki...), so you can get a non-updated version if you download it.

For example, I will update OpenBOR's Manual in few days again.
 
O Ilusionista said:
There is a problem with that: The manual is way more updated than Wiki, but Wiki has better examples of codes. I am in charge of updating the Manual (in fact, the Wiki too), and I constantily do that (I need to update the wiki...), so you can get a non-updated version if you download it.

For example, I will update OpenBOR's Manual in few days again.
Click to expand...

Then I'll do an update on each new milestone of OpenBOR. I'll consult on the manual and crossmatch (technical terms here again) to the wiki for updates and add them on the pack eventually, so I don't have to worry about that that much.

For now, I'm making crunch time for the pack with an basic enemy and items level IN NOTEPAD (IN 3D) and that's just for starters. Wait till I get to text entities and that's where things start to explode.
 
I'm a bit displaced at the moment (rebuilding my PC) so I can't access my files.  It should be posted on forums somewhere... (searches forum)

CHM
https://www.dropbox.com/s/09484bpn38zmixe/OpenBoR%20Help%202013.7z

PDF
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8npe55sby4kxnka/OpenBoR%20Help.pdf


The PDF works the same way thou, but if you view it online you won't see the index, if you download it and open in windows it does. (depends on the PDF viewer you have)
Click to expand...

I used a few different editors trying to find a good free one.  Sadly the images are watermarked in these copies, I had a process to replace them manually but never got around to it.


I also started a new edit pack, but mainly gathering things to include, not sure where that went.
What really needs to be added is some (simple) commonly used scripts and examples of use.

I also started a Scripts Index CHM/PDF, but gave up on it
http://www.chronocrash.com/forum/index.php?topic=1397.msg15691#msg15691

Anyhow I don't think it's a big task for just one person, it's a bit overwhelming the amount of outdated or incorrect information that needs to be updated. 
 
Hey, good to see new users trying to help (I am new too, I am here for about 2 years I think).

About the script index, I will see what I can do.
 
I think all of this effort would be better spent on editing the Wiki, for three big reasons:

[list type=decimal]
[*]First, the old manual is on an outside forum we have absolutely no control of - it could disappear tomorrow and that would just be too bad.
[*]As risky as item 1 is, any sort of static downloadable manual is worse. No matter how good the intentions, any sort of file based concept is going to go out of date fast and hard. Once it does, we have a big pile of out dated or misleading information floating around the internet that we can't do anything about.
[*]The wiki is a central, linkable location that I own. Everyone can work on it and pool their knowledge instead of each person trying to do their own thing. Why not update Wiki articles, and then in your project link back to them? This way if the information is updated your concept reflects the new information.
[/list]

It's great you want to help, but I would implore you to not reinvent the wheel (yet again). It's been done to death and never works. Centralized, searchable, linkable information sources that we control are the way to go.

DC

 
Damon Caskey said:
It's great you want to help, but I would implore you to not reinvent the wheel (yet again). It's been done to death and never works. Centralized, searchable, linkable information sources that we control are the way to go.

DC
Click to expand...

You're right for one thing, an effort like that is a great underpinning and the risk of redundancy is high, but for me, an offline version is useful that can be used by others who either don't have a good connection or are on the go and just want to know what commands and other stuff do without immediate wifi connection (like in my case).

Just a note, MediaWiki has the ability to make PDF versions of articles like Wikipedia (i should know, I've used that feature in college days to have info handy for nursing and stuff), if that can be added on the Wiki, it's very much appreciated. Heck, you can use DokuWiki which is better than MediaWiki and still get away with it.

Whichever direction, this is not just the main point of the pack anyway, not by a long shot.

We can link the wiki for people who have internet connection and let them download an offline version for people who don't, but what I want to put in there was sort of like what Ren'Py does. In there, they show their basic and advanced features in a demo of sorts. For our case, you have the basic level where you can see how a level works, then there are sample features such as water and text entity and finally a full level (such as the Alley) that shows the product of what you saw so far.

That's the plan in the nutshell though.

I understand what you mean, but I did this not for profit or fame, I did this for myself and people like myself. I'm not catering for one person, but I cater for the community as a whole. I support your centralized body of information, but sometimes, we can have an exception for it. Mainly that other efforts don't work it's because they're either not that committed or are busy with their lives. When I'm committed to something, I won't stop (except when some tragedy struck my life though), so you can expect that this will still be an updated thing, and the good thing is I'm learning as I go along. Whatever updates go, I'll see if it's significant and might add it on the pack.

Actually, speaking of expect, I actually expected a reply from you being the main man here at OpenBOR. I respect your decision wholeheartedly, but I can take the risk.
 
this is a brilliant and neat idea for learners and noobs like me only could you add guide for  adding the right color palette on chars as well as making stages match in nicely and could you include the old stage editor as well as useful char maker perhaps also include a guide to convert music files to bor extension cheers and keep up the good work your doing great
 
Damon Caskey said:
I think all of this effort would be better spent on editing the Wiki, for three big reasons:

[list type=decimal]
[*]First, the old manual is on an outside forum we have absolutely no control of - it could disappear tomorrow and that would just be too bad.
[*]As risky as item 1 is, any sort of static downloadable manual is worse. No matter how good the intentions, any sort of file based concept is going to go out of date fast and hard. Once it does, we have a big pile of out dated or misleading information floating around the internet that we can't do anything about.
[*]The wiki is a central, linkable location that I own. Everyone can work on it and pool their knowledge instead of each person trying to do their own thing. Why not update Wiki articles, and then in your project link back to them? This way if the information is updated your concept reflects the new information.
[/list]

It's great you want to help, but I would implore you to not reinvent the wheel (yet again). It's been done to death and never works. Centralized, searchable, linkable information sources that we control are the way to go.

DC
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone can disagree with that.  But part of the problem lies with updates not being done by dev's in the first place.  For past 2 years utunnels made additions without updating any documentation or rarely even posting in forums what had changed. 

@ryomaneo
I agree it would be good to have a tutorial for setting up palettes or people.  But to be honest it's not something that is openbor specific.  There is plenty of information out there on how to do this already.

We NEED to nuke the old 8bit palette tutorial from existence, that thing is half the problem.
 
ryomaneo said:
this is a brilliant and neat idea for learners and noobs like me only could you add guide for  adding the right color palette on chars as well as making stages match in nicely and could you include the old stage editor as well as useful char maker perhaps also include a guide to convert music files to bor extension cheers and keep up the good work your doing great
Click to expand...

For that I might contact some people, probably PM'd them to have suggestions as well as experimenting on my own, such as palettes. I haven't been to palettes in BGs that much (any of you guys know how to merge pallettes in photoshop or a program for that?)

Yeah and I appreciate it!

BeasTie said:
@ryomaneo
I agree it would be good to have a tutorial for setting up palettes or people.  But to be honest it's not something that is openbor specific.  There is plenty of information out there on how to do this already.

We NEED to nuke the old 8bit palette tutorial from existence, that thing is half the problem.
Click to expand...

It's a problem indeed, but what do you mean that it's half of the problem?
 
CRxTRDude said:
It's a problem indeed, but what do you mean that it's half of the problem?
Click to expand...

It's the finest example of why I don't like your idea. Despite being outdated so much it actually teaches the exact opposite of what you should be doing (with one specialized exception), it's still ubiquitous and thus nearly always the first thing newbies find. It got that way by being packed up and distributed - just like you want to do. Once out there, the net immediately does its thing and there's no way to "get it back".

So along comes the newbie... and after being mislead, he shows up asking the same question we hear ~400 times a year, and we have to explain from scratch for the ~400th time how to do it right. Or worse (and far more often I'm afraid), they get discouraged and lose interest without us ever even knowing they were there.

DC
 
Then it's settled that it's a problem and it's not going to be mentioned again. Thanks for that.

I'm not going to argue things like this though, I just want a straight up answer and I got a rebut.

No problem, we can skip that and move on, that can't stop me for making the rest of the pack anyway, the examples and stuff can't just be ignored. After all the documentation is just one thing that's in the pack and it's just one part of a whole.

That's said and done, I've been on the grasps so far and it's great, studying the wiki and the old manuals enlightened me further when I make the samples.

I also saw a post you did regarding:

BeasTie said:
Damon Caskey said:
My suggestion is go to ground with a fresh module. Start small and work your way up. Consult us along the way and get a handle on how the engine actually works. Not only will your work improve exponentially, you'll find most of what you want to do is far easier than the solutions you've thus tried or seen attempted by SEEP.

DC
Click to expand...
I can't agree more with DC, the best results are from starting with an empty directory and a copy of OpenBOR.exe
Click to expand...

Note that I quoted BeasTie from this (along with nesting your comment, because I agree with that fact too) because it's agreeable that starting from scratch is better than using a template, since using a template is just making people want to make more bad games (vain to Game Maker). You can say now that my effort is worthless then, but this doesn't mean I can't stop this effort though.

We can say that the neo-edit-pack is nothing more than a demo of sorts that they can examine, that they can reverse-engineer to their liking, so that they can see what they can do. It's a daunting task, yes, but I'm not going to be stopping this and as you even suggested, I start it small from the original pack then adding the features from there, then making better resources, still retaining the characters though (I got a liking to Angel from KOF until now) and make sure that it is a fulfilling thing for me and others such.
 
But part of the problem lies with updates not being done by dev's in the first place.  For past 2 years utunnels made additions without updating any documentation or rarely even posting in forums what had changed. 
Click to expand...
Sorry, but this is half true. I can't say anything about a period greater than 2 years (because I wasn't here), but I can say for that period, because is exactly the period I am here. uTunnels do post about what is changed in each post he made for a release, even putting it in the VERSION_INFO.

I was looking at the downloads (and hey, the OpenBOR release download links aren't worlking for me now), and I noticed this:

BeasTie said:
Just a heads up the file VERSION_INFO.txt was blank.
Click to expand...

DC, do you mind to fix it?
EDIT: There is a version info log at SVN, but its more oriented to authors and experienced users. That "getanimationpropriety" will be very useful.

I'm not going to argue things like this though, I just want a straight up answer and I got a rebut.
Click to expand...
Nobody is trying to put you down. We are just saying that maybe it won't be a good idea. But you are free to do it anyway.

We say that because we are all very busy and there are tons of things to. For example, the Manual is the most updated version, but it lacks completly the Script section. Its a HUGE work to start with.

I have access to both documents (wiki and manual), so if you wanna help me updating it, you can gather the information that is missing and I put there. Last time, I gone through almost every post to check everything that was missing: http://www.chronocrash.com/forum/index.php?topic=734.msg7722#msg7722
 
If that's the case, then I understand. I can say I want to apologize, but yeah, i want to in the case that I usually misunderstood things. Don't worry though, I place things in a mature manner, I don't hold grudges for things like this, criticisms are very much acceptable. Usually though, i get a little temperamental sometimes and downbeat, mainly because of my work as nurse and doing additional work on the side, but I'm being honest with my intentions though, so don't worry about that part.

That being said, I'll try to help the people in the way I can even if it's a little overwhelming at first (hey, even nursing is overwhelming enough, let alone game making right?), besides, I tried other programs before, which couldn't give me one or the other. I gave this one a try and based on the community here, I liked that people are still doing things using OpenBOR and it made me lift my spirits again.

I hope that I can work with you guys better and hope that we all learn and tag along the way.

Will now be working on doing resource stuff now. I'm going to comment a player character and an enemy character for people to reference (probably following DC's character template), then replacing some of the menus and logos and cleanup stuff.
 
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