Throws conversation

[PS_VITA]

I've been playing Openbor and modifying openbor modules for a while now and I was wondering how most of you feel about adding throws,  grabs , ect into your games. The reason why I ask is because this particular mechanic seems to overwhelm me and I tend to avoid it. Maybe is because I think about all the possibilities of things going wrong,  like what if I get hurt during a throw, what happens if there are two enemies right in front of me and I throw both at the same time or what if I'm to close to a wall, ect.

I was just wondering if I should continue to have this mind set until I get better or is this something you guys practiced and understood in the early stages of making your own game.

TLDR:  throws and the coding that goes with it overwhelms me. I was wondering how you feel about it.


Edit:

Amazing

 

[danno]

script in general was something I'd avoid not just throws, Damon told me 10 years ago if I started learning how to script I'd be great in 10 years.... well guess what? I still avoid script, especially throws.

 

[paulo.bender]

In my current project, grabs and throws are special commands.

The basic grab attempt ir performed by pressing ATTACK + JUMP.
This gives agency to the player, making it's character grab only when the player wants to.

The coding behind it troubled me a lot at the beginning, but now works nicely.

 

[PS_VITA]

script in general was something I'd avoid not just throws, Damon told me 10 years ago if I started learning how to script I'd be great in 10 years.... well guess what? I still avoid script, especially throws.

*sighs* 10 years!!!???

Well atleast you figured out a way to circumvent it without using scripts. But yeah,  my respect for the engine and the people who pulled it off has grown over the last few months in just admiring the sheer ingenuity and intelligence to pull this off.

Especially when I see stuff like what I posted in the OP. Grab and moving, binding the enemy and using almost a single sprite and openbor isn't using flash animations it's literally pixel art.

 

[Bloodbane]

The reason why I ask is because this particular mechanic seems to overwhelm me and I tend to avoid it.

I had the feeling of avoiding complex stuffs more than 10 years ago but my will of getting slams/throws in my game (Crime Buster) was stronger than my fear. So I faced it and managed to script scripted pseudo slam before.
It was crude and rigid but it works  8). It was the base of slam/throw scripts.
Then bind function was coded in and I was excited. With slam script base already coded, I only need to change some rules and added bind function there. I've perfectened my slam/throw scripts that time and implemented it to Crime Buster  8).

Maybe is because I think about all the possibilities of things going wrong,  like what if I get hurt during a throw, what happens if there are two enemies right in front of me and I throw both at the same time or what if I'm to close to a wall, ect.

Those stuffs crossed my mind before but I focused to one problem one at a time and solved it one by one. The first possibility was very very very easy to solve ;D.

In general, it's not about the difficulties but it's about your will. That's what we learn from games also. I believe none of us knew how to beat enemies and bosses in Streets of Rage 2 when we play it for the first time. But we want to play and eventually we beat those enemies and win the game  8)

 

[PS_VITA]

The reason why I ask is because this particular mechanic seems to overwhelm me and I tend to avoid it.

I had the feeling of avoiding complex stuffs more than 10 years ago but my will of getting slams/throws in my game (Crime Buster) was stronger than my fear. So I faced it and managed to script scripted pseudo slam before.
It was crude and rigid but it works  8). It was the base of slam/throw scripts.
Then bind function was coded in and I was excited. With slam script base already coded, I only need to change some rules and added bind function there. I've perfectened my slam/throw scripts that time and implemented it to Crime Buster  8).

Maybe is because I think about all the possibilities of things going wrong,  like what if I get hurt during a throw, what happens if there are two enemies right in front of me and I throw both at the same time or what if I'm to close to a wall, ect.

Those stuffs crossed my mind before but I focused to one problem one at a time and solved it one by one. The first possibility was very very very easy to solve ;D.

In general, it's not about the difficulties but it's about your will. That's what we learn from games also. I believe none of us knew how to beat enemies and bosses in Streets of Rage 2 when we play it for the first time. But we want to play and eventually we beat those enemies and win the game  8)

Thanks for the input!
feels good knowing you also struggled with it and that this is only natural. However,  you guys were the ones that pioneered some of the scripts we now have today and we can actually see these examples spread out through modules and the forums post examples.  So in a way it should be easier for us newcomers now.

I can't believe how old the engine is, I just wish I had discovered it before game maker,  which I spent alot of time trying to learn it.

 

[xyz555]

I've been playing Openbor and modifying openbor modules for a while now and I was wondering how most of you feel about adding throws,  grabs , ect into your games. The reason why I ask is because this particular mechanic seems to overwhelm me and I tend to avoid it. Maybe is because I think about all the possibilities of things going wrong,  like what if I get hurt during a throw, what happens if there are two enemies right in front of me and I throw both at the same time or what if I'm to close to a wall, ect.

I was just wondering if I should continue to have this mind set until I get better or is this something you guys practiced and understood in the early stages of making your own game.

TLDR:  throws and the coding that goes with it overwhelms me. I was wondering how you feel about it.


Edit:

Amazing

The virtual scene of this game, the effect is very, very good, I hope that one day I can make this effect into my game

 

[danno]

Well atleast you figured out a way to circumvent it without using scripts.

oh no no, I use scripts, I have no choice because if I don't it limits my creativity. The video you posted requires creative thinking and unfortunately can't be done natively, some people are really good at coding but lack imagination, some have great imaginations but lack coding skill, some have great imaginations and coding skills like the guy who's video you posted.

My advice would be to start simple and basic at first, don't look at O ilu's video and compare yourself to him, he's spent decades perfecting that, of course you'll be overwhelmed, I'm actually working on some very basic throws today so if I have time I'll go through my work process with you

 

[Die_In_Fire]

I personally love throws on mods. That’s one of the this that make a mod to differentiate from a BoR clone.
Sadly, for me it’s been imposible to understand and just managed to do some simple stuff by copying from other mods. Maybe I have lot of unnecessary lines, but it is what it is...
If I could manage those scripts, I’ll do a grab/throw system like in sor series and like ninja Gaiden arcade, nes dd3.

 

[DCurrent]

I have to admit - if I start a module up and and it's using the default slinging towel throw system, I'm out. Instantly. It may not be fair, but that's just my personal taste. This goes for non OpenBOR stuff too. The Samurai Shodown series lost me when they adopted the generic push throw system starting with SS3.

I remember back in the day (WAY before we had script) asking SX about a workable throw system, and his response was the same as mine is now. There's just no practical way to do it in a beat em' up engine. We'd have to require a series of standard animations, binding, size of the sprites, and so on... and it still would only cover basic stuff like Final Fight Piledrivers. The only workable solution was a rules based set of building blocks that allowed creators to define their own logic. In other words - script. That's one of the main reasons script support was added. It gave us a stable, infinitely versatile way to build throws.

Of course script being what it is, you have to build ALL the logic yourself, but these days there are several templates out there. Bloodbane's is really popular, and O Ilusionista has a modified version that works well. As it happens, I'm the very first person to ever use scripted throws, and would like to think I'm not so bad it at either:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNcoVQhhITI

Here's my operative library for anyone interested. It supports grabbing multiple entities at once, mounting (when the attacker binds to victim, for something like a vault or swing DDT), streets of rage style side switching, special effects, and so on while attempting to employ an object oriented approach.

I might add, when script support was first added, we didn't have access to bind. You had to "bind" the thrown entities manually by constantly readjusting its position in the update scripts. Royal pain in the a** to set up, but still far better than the Attack Type hack we'd been stuck with up until that point. We're old! 

DC

 

[kimono]

You are all great coders to make some so fantastic throws. Thanks for all your hard work to permit to make these great custom moves .

 

[PS_VITA]

I have to admit - if I start a module up and and it's using the default slinging towel throw system, I'm out. Instantly. It may not be fair, but that's just my personal taste. This goes for non OpenBOR stuff too. The Samurai Shodown series lost me when they adopted the generic push throw system starting with SS3.

I remember back in the day (WAY before we had script) asking SX about a workable throw system, and his response was the same as mine is now. There's just no practical way to do it in a beat em' up engine. We'd have to require a series of standard animations, binding, size of the sprites, and so on... and it still would only cover basic stuff like Final Fight Piledrivers. The only workable solution was a rules based set of building blocks that allowed creators to define their own logic. In other words - script. That's one of the main reasons script support was added. It gave us a stable, infinitely versatile way to build throws.

Of course script being what it is, you have to build ALL the logic yourself, but these days there are several templates out there. Bloodbane's is really popular, and O Ilusionista has a modified version that works well. As it happens, I'm the very first person to ever use scripted throws, and would like to think I'm not so bad it at either:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNcoVQhhITI

Here's my operative library for anyone interested. It supports grabbing multiple entities at once, mounting (when the attacker binds to victim, for something like a vault or swing DDT), streets of rage style side switching, special effects, and so on while attempting to employ an object oriented approach.

I might add, when script support was first added, we didn't have access to bind. You had to "bind" the thrown entities manually by constantly readjusting its position in the update scripts. Royal pain in the a** to set up, but still far better than the Attack Type hack we'd been stuck with up until that point. We're old! 

DC

Wow, that Golden Axe video was nuts and so brutal! There's a character is KOF named blue jessie that has a cool super throw move that reminds me of what was going on in this video.

Awesome work! How old is that golden axe module btw?