Pigsking 612AD: Remake

[Palomo]

Hi everyone,

I would like to ask, before throwing myself into something that might be overwhelming, I want to know the possibilities of recreating a game which look exactly like this (I want to remake and expand it):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJgQGPoFo-Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeTXu1jPL4M

It's an old 2.5d scrolling arcade. Just... It's not a beat'em up  ;D

I'm a programmer so I'm fine with coding and learning a new language, I wanted just to know if this it's just too complicated to get on.

Thanks for the help

 

[aL BeasTie]

Firstly, I freakin' loved this game, if you do remake it would be awesome.
I've thought about trying it before too (it's one of my favourites) but for me some aspects would of been tricky (like the ball).
It also meant a lot of sprite ripping just for me to try it.

If you're a programmer I imagine it wouldn't be that complicated to pull this one off. 
For the most part I think OpenBOR has enough out of the box to do this. 

You would mainly just need code for

- The Ball
- Scoring
- 'Send in the Troll'
- camera (locking to person with ball)

Die_In_Fire has made a volleyball mini-game in his mod, also White_Dragon has added beach ball to his TMNT mod.

 

[Palomo]

Firstly, I freakin' loved this game, if you do remake it would be awesome.
I've thought about trying it before too (it's one of my favourites) but for me some aspects would of been tricky (like the ball).
It also meant a lot of sprite ripping just for me to try it.

If you're a programmer I imagine it wouldn't be that complicated to pull this one off. 
For the most part I think OpenBOR has enough out of the box to do this. 

You would mainly just need code for

- The Ball
- Scoring
- 'Send in the Troll'
- camera (locking to person with ball)

Die_In_Fire has made a volleyball mini-game in his mod, also White_Dragon has added beach ball to his TMNT mod.

Well, you found another huge fan of the series. I've installed MAME on my laptop like 3 months ago, and it has a played games counter (I use MameFX, I don't remember if the normal mame has the counter). Well in 3 months I've played 76 times pigskin, everytime it was at least 2 full games, but sometimes more. Make your counts. Moreover I've brought a friend into it, who loved it and well, now, it's a pigskin war between us  ;D


Back to serious business, If you're interested in helping, we could get in touch and figure something out. Even if you don't work on it, I would benefit of your help/experience in building games for OpenBOR.

I've done just a bit of sprite ripping for another game which I wanted to expand (Vendetta, I bet you know this too).

I really never got into the programming language that bor use (AngelScript if I remember well???), but it shouldn't be a big deal. Currently where I work I'm dealing with C#, actionscript 3, T-SQL, Xml/Html, CSS3, etc. etc. and I've got some experience with AutoIT, Visual Basic, PHP, Javascript, C++ so I think I can get used to OpenBOR.

The aforementioned friend can help us/me with the sprite ripping (I remember I found somewhere a Mame version which had tools for sprite ripping, NeoRageX was even better at it but I don't think it can run Pigskin).

Are you up to anything? I'd really like to make this.

The only trouble I'm facing will be generating new sprites to expand the game, but I think I can pay someone ot do that, if the project really goes fine.

What do you think?

 

[aL BeasTie]

Yeah I used to have epic battles with my cousin too, pigskin is great for that.  ;D

Sounds like you should work out openbor script easily enough, people on the boards can answer any questions you might have regarding that.  Including utunnels who wrote the script engine. (main openbor developer)

I'd be happy to help out, I could look at ripping audio/sfx and assist with the sprite rips. (I should have some stuff already, will post it when I find it)

Because it's always the green grass or grey castle backgrounds, it should be pretty easy to rip them even if we have to do it from basic screenshots.

What type of new sprites did you want? Possibly there's another old game with similar sprites.

Anyhow here's the 'Helpful Links' section should get you started
http://www.chronocrash.com/forum/index.php?topic=13.0

It's a good idea too make something simple first, you should use those Vendetta sprites,
and start adding a character and enemy to openbor.  This will help you see how things work in a normal situation. 

 

[Palomo]

Yeah I used to have epic battles with my cousin too, pigskin is great for that.  ;D

Sounds like you should work out openbor script easily enough, people on the boards can answer any questions you might have regarding that.  Including utunnels who wrote the script engine. (main openbor developer)

I'd be happy to help out, I could look at ripping audio/sfx and assist with the sprite rips. (I should have some stuff already, will post it when I find it)

Because it's always the green grass or grey castle backgrounds, it should be pretty easy to rip them even if we have to do it from basic screenshots.

What type of new sprites did you want? Possibly there's another old game with similar sprites.

Anyhow here's the 'Helpful Links' section should get you started
http://www.chronocrash.com/forum/index.php?topic=13.0

It's a good idea too make something simple first, you should use those Vendetta sprites,
and start adding a character and enemy to openbor.  This will help you see how things work in a normal situation. 

Yeah, I've already landed on your help topic and opened all the related guides.

I remember when I ripped vendetta sprites, I managed to add them to a game (but they were oversized and the palette was pretty messed up). Then I left the project because I had no time.


Anyway, for the sprites ripping, I'm on with you. I would like to mention that for the background ripping, in the Mame version I found when I was ripping vendetta (a Mame version with some extra tools for ripping sprites) there was a way (at least in Vendetta) to remove layers.

If you know photoshop/flash a bit, or know what layers in image editing are, you can easily imagine that sprite ripping was so much easier.

You could, for example, remove the background and leave the people sprites only, so you had black screen around them and ripping was piece of cake. Same goes for background, you removed people and items and the background only was left, so you could just screenshot it.

Well, to the point:

Would you like to get in touch with skype/facebook/some random chat or you want us to keep in contact throught the forum?

Let me know. I'm pretty damn busy with my job in these days, but I'll try to work something out.

 

[aL BeasTie]

Yeah just contact me here, it's your best bet.  Just PM me or post here it's fine.

There's a tutorial here on ripping from mame - The second method will work for Pigskin.
http://www.chronocrash.com/forum/index.php?topic=813.0


I'll rip these whole tilesheets too.

I'll stick the screenshots and recordings for now, it's a one colour background so quicker to get most of them this way.
Basically I'll try and rip whatever I can, it's not too hard, just tedious.

This is what I've started already, I'll get done these for you first.

- PLAYER 1 - THOR

- ONE TEAM MATE/ENEMY - Will get at least one enemy ripped so can have one to work with.  Get all sprites for this one guy first.
- THE FONT(S) - Ripped the fonts and will create openbor font sheet(s) for you
- The ball (DONE)
- HUD Sprites (scoreboard, player arrows etc.) Almost done (90%)
- cut scenes (goal scored, send in the troll, 'see what I can do' etc.)
- weapon items (DONE)
- map objects
- speech bubbles (DONE)
- Pigskin Music - (I've ripped the main music already and set it up for proper looping)
- SFX

Hell I'll have a go at the backgrounds too, they seem easy enough to rebuild from screens. 
Pretty much everything on the map will need to be separate objects in openbor anyway.

I'll grab any other enemy/char sprites too that's easy enough at the time, then we can just get whats missing from the tile sheets.

I was going to rip this game one day anyway, and I've got time atm, boring weekend...

I'm happy to continue get resources and get the basics ready in openbor for you if you're short on time.
Then you can concentrate on learning more openbor and scripting etc.

Good timing too cause I kind of needed a break from what I've been working on anyway.

I'll post some more sprites soon, when I have complete sets.

 

[Palomo]

I'm glad to hear that!
Please be forgiving about my free time lack, but I'm super busy with work atm, I'll try my best to get it done.

Many thanks for the effort!

 

[aL BeasTie]

No worries, I'll send you a small demo soon, it will just be title screen etc.
But will contain a working font and all the assets/files I've got ready.

I've also got OpenBOR setup for 512x480, the native resolution of pigskin.  Possibly we can reduce it to just 480x480, depends if you want to keep the extra black bars on edge of screen the original game had.  There is only a few images that fill the whole screen at 512x480, like hi -score screens etc.

You mentioned wanting to make new sprites, not sure what you had in mind.
But I was thinking you could eventually add whole new team variations and/or the ability to change the squad leader/war chief.

   

   

 

 

 

Just have to swap heads/bodies and change the palette.

 

[aL BeasTie]

UPDATE: -Some stuff we might need to consider eventually which dictates the sprites.  Like how you will handle sprites for the ball and running while attacking etc.  You might want sprites with legs/torso separated later on, also I had to add the ball to the frames, but there's sprites with just the outline of the ball you might want. 

So I'm making sets of both for safe keeping.  I'm assembling the sprites, but I'll keep copies that are just the legs or just the torso, they will align properly together if needed.  Also copies of the frames where ball is just outline.

In the end I just used the tilesheets from MAME, I'm getting them without heads,
this means I just have to rip the body once and attach each head as needed. 
Also I'm not sure exactly which head should be used in every single frame, so this allows you to change things on the fly.

We can either add the heads to them later as needed.  OR you could just create separate entities for the heads, 
so you just have one set of body sprites, and spawn/bind the head sprites in each frame as needed in OPENBOR. 

Each char has 6 heads, players only have 4.

This would be a good idea in the long run, then you only have one set of body sprites, the rest is heads. 
To get started thou while testing we can make some sprites with heads attached.

I only had to do the legs once, then I just bring in the bodies on top.

Also this means I have every torso combination with running and standing frames,
including ones that probably were not in original game (like running when about to kick)

Give me a week or so, I should have most things ripped soon that you'll actually need to get started anyway.
Some frames are trickier to assemble, but you won't need it all just yet.
I'll have to sort out palettes too, depends how quickly you need these, I can always do more to them later on if you need them now.

Other stuff..
- MUSIC Done. - All music ripped, just have to work out loop points or edit them to perfectly loop.
- SFX - Done - Got everything that the ripper would allow me, I think it's everything, could be stuff missing thou.

---------------------------
2 Other games so far I've thought of from MAME with very similar sprites.
The obvious one - Arch Rivals
and a game called Xenophobe

There's a few extra sprites I've grabbed you could use, like some skeletons and decor etc.

But there's also lot's of extra heads that could be used to make new players...


I was just messing around, I did these quick for fun to test, you don't have to use these ideas of course.

Mohawk from Arch Rivals

Snakemen or New Troll

or Aliens?

A New Troll ?

(default Pigskin PAL) 

(very quick pal change)

Cyclops (very rough edit)

Zombie

(rough edit, got the head from pile of bodies sprite in pigskin)

 

[Palomo]

Well, I'm really REALLY Impressed with the sprites work you're doing. It's great and I love the new sprites!!!! Damn, dude, you're good at it!!

Well, when I can't wait to have some free time to seriously follow this! It's gonna be great and it's gonna have LOT of new sweeties  ;D ;D ;D ;D

I can't wait, I'm hating my job now 

 

[aL BeasTie]

Thanks man, they're really simple edits, just changing heads and palettes really.  They turned out well thou, I love that snakeman.
These sprites are very interchangeable, most of them share the same legs for example. 
So I've been finding it easy to work with them.

Don't worry I wont get too far ahead, I'm just getting all the assets ready for you, if you don't have the time right now it's fine.  That just gives me more time to organize everything properly and make it 'Neat and Tidy'.  So you're not confused how the sprites should work or have trouble finding things. 

While I have the time I'm trying to get everything ripped so it's done.  (I'm at home sick right now, so can make this big post too )

I might be busier in coming weeks and not be around as much, also I'll be going overseas in a couple of months.

I thought maybe when you're working out how to make proper Pigskin, I could do the other idea I had originally and make a normal 'Beat 'em up' mode to go alongside your mod. OR maybe this is something you wanted to do too.  So I'm also sorting some sprites that can be used for this as well.

[Guard Enemy]

Also started trying to make some extra attacks, so they can at least punch with both hands.

I think I should be able to easily make edits of chars holding and using weapons too.
It could have dismemberment, so you could cut enemies in half or decapitate them.

--------------------------------------
I don't want to interfere with what you have planned, this is your mod. 
But this is the idea for a Pigskin MOD that I've had in my head for a while.

It could have several 'Game Modes'

- ARCADE                      -  Original/Pure Pigskin gameplay, just like the arcade

- 'MODE B'                      -  Extended Gameplay, adds 'new features' (new teams, new stages, sprites etc.)

- TOURNAMENT/SEASON -  Play against an array of different teams (add many custom teams etc.) and win the 'Pigskin Superbowl'

- DEATHMATCH          - Every man for himself, NO BALL, just kill each other, Last man standing wins.

- TEAM DEATHMATCH  - Same as Deathmatch but with Teams

- STORY MODE            - Pigskin 'Beat em Up' - (add weapons, new attacks etc.) Play as Blue team (House Akenbäk) enemy teams are fed up with House Akenbäk always winning Pigskin and mean to take them out before they can enter this years Pigskin. 

ALTERNATE STORY                  - The Pigskin Tournament has been taken over by 'Bad Guys' who have reduced to a 'Tournament of Death' - Fight the bad guys and win the 'Tournament of Death' for honor and to restore Pigskin to it's former glory.

VS/TRAINING MODE    - One on One fight to the death / Combat Training

-------------------------------


Forgot to mention, I've done the first map too, needs tweaking but it's 99% accurate as far as I can tell.

These are actual screens from OpenBOR -


I'm not really coding anything, but I'm adding some of the objects etc. with offsets and bbox's.  So the basics will be there and ready for modding.

I never really noticed before, but I think pigskin randomly places some objects etc. in the map.  So I'm at least adding the stuff that never moves, like the stone head markers.  It's easy to make random spawns in openbor, so you can do the same thing eventually.

 

[Palomo]

Well, it may be simple, but I'm still amazed. The ease of the whole sprite editing thing (at least trusting what you're saying  ;D ;D ;D) opens up a wide spectrum of possibilities for the new game.

Thanks for your time!

Anyway I'm in the weekend and instead of studying what I should be studying, I started studying up here:
http://dcemulation.org/index.php5?title=OpenBORManual

Now, this guide seems pretty long. What do you suggest in your experience?

Should I start reading it or should I go with something else and start trying to mod right now and learning while doing?

I don't know, it seems like a lot of stuff, I don't know where to begin

PS: HAHAHAHAH I loved the avatar change! ;D

 

[aL BeasTie]

It's not a guide thou, it's the entire manual

Pretty good place to start thou, you could also extract the contents of a mod and see how things work too.  Learning while doing is really the best way, reading and searching the manual when you need to know how to do something will usually provide the answer.  You should read though the whole manual eventually thou.  Check out the wiki too.

Also check in helpful links & the tutorial list for...

- Download OpenBOR stats (openbor mod editor)
- Read any Character creation tutorials
- Read any Stage creation tutorials

This is edit pack is good to start with too if you want to see a basic mod at work.
http://www.chronocrash.com/forum/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=item61

Or use the complete original 'Beats Of Rage' PAK

Just make sure to replace the openbor.exe with the latest release, it contains a very old one.

I'm thinking because you have programming experience, once you know the basics of adding characters, entities etc. in openbor you should have an easier time.

 

[Palomo]

Yeah, actually I had a little previous experience with openBOR.

Saturday I tried to give it a quick go.

Problems I got where:

I already had neo edit pack and I already knew how .pak files and Data folder works, but I wasn't able to start .pak files.

What I did was:

-Extract neo edit pack
-Put newest openBOR exe in it
-Packed data folder with paker/borpak
-Renamed Data folder to something else to allow loading of .pak files

Then OpenBOR just starts, goes black screen like is starting a game, and closes

The normal openBOR release instead, would allow me to choose .pak mod files. So I tried to move my newly packed file in it, but it didn't got detected so I couldn't start it.

Am I missing something? I can deal with working with a Data directory files for now, but I would like my pak files to work one day 

 

[aL BeasTie]

Yeah working with Data folder is better while modding.  You don't need to create a .PAK file to test it thou.
( I think you said you understand this but will explain in case)

Have a directory for the mod your working on, don't have other PAKS/mods with it.  In the PAKS folder create an empty text file and rename .PAK (example MYMOD.PAK)  This is a dummy file so openbor will load loose files from DATA directory.

I'm not sure why your .pak didn't work, did you make sure to have all required files, like levels.txt etc?
Did openbor say anything in the log file?


Make sure you're using borpak from a recent release, it was updated since that edit pack.

 

[Palomo]

Yeah working with Data folder is better while modding.  You don't need to create a .PAK file to test it thou.
( I think you said you understand this but will explain in case)

Have a directory for the mod your working on, don't have other PAKS/mods with it.  In the PAKS folder create an empty text file and rename .PAK (example MYMOD.PAK)  This is a dummy file so openbor will load loose files from DATA directory.

I'm not sure why your .pak didn't work, did you make sure to have all required files, like levels.txt etc?
Did openbor say anything in the log file?


Make sure you're using borpak from a recent release, it was updated since that edit pack.

Yeah, don't worry, I'm pretty into the .pak logic. It's pretty easy to understand from a programmers point of view. (I know that mod has to be tested with Data folder to do change & testing of your work quick, then when you release or perhaps you want to test pak files, you put all into a pak)

By the way I didn't really thought about new borpak versions, maybe it's that. I don't think it's missing files because I just paked the neo edit data directory, which, even if small, it was a small working game.

Well, I'll give a try again. Thanks for the hints.