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crypt

Wombat2112

Active member
I think there is an animated level here I need there is a preview of it there is an sff file and def file is there anyway to access it through these files I know nothing of Mugen
the bottom download red earth crypt

https://mugenarchive.com/forums/downloads.php?do=file&id=18911-crypt-a-ic-margatroid
 
Wombat2112 said:

O Ilusionista is the resident Mugen expert. I tagged him so he might take notice and help you out. Be aware though, the Mugen community is very different than ours. Many of them do not take kindly to parts of their projects being extracted and used elsewhere.

Whether or not we agree with their philosophy is immaterial. As a community we generally try to maintain a mutual respect of others' wishes. I would suggest you ask the Mugen author for permission before you go any further.

DC
 
Damon Caskey said it all (and thanks for the nice words).

Plus, that stage won't be easily converted to openbor because it isn't animated, but it features a complex 3D delta effect which OpenBOR doesn't supports is out of the bat - and I think it can't handle the stage in the same way at all.

cryptprev_by_murdertroyd-dadbk04.gif



Alice is one of the best stage creators we have - even I cannot fully understand what she does, it's above my league in stage standards. o_O
 
O Ilusionista said:
Plus, that stage won't be easily converted to openbor because it isn't animated, but it features a complex 3D delta effect which OpenBOR doesn't supports is out of the bat - and I think it can't handle the stage in the same way at all.

cryptprev_by_murdertroyd-dadbk04.gif

O Ilusionista, I don't know how it works in Mugen, but we can do that in OpenBOR too. The floor and ceiling would be easy. Just a couple of layers with an affine set up. The walls are tougher. There's a couple of things you could do, but I'm thinking a hidden layer with affine, then using a screen to turn it horizontally. The screen itself would move to scroll the wall, while the hidden layer affine effect gives it the warp.

Or you could just brute force it with scripted background frames like Rocket Viper, but it's an old trick and IMO not very elegant:

(skip to ~07:50)


DC
 
Damon Caskey The Rocket Viper example works on a different way - its doesn't uses Parallax Interpolation at all.
About replicating this in OpenBOR, it won't work like it works in Mugen because we have Bilinear interpolation.  And if you pay attention to the walls, you will notice they aren't a single image deformed - they are multiply pieces.

I am not saying its not doable in openbor, but it won't work 100% like it works in mugen.
 
O Ilusionista said:
Damon Caskey The Rocket Viper example works on a different way - its doesn't uses Parallax Interpolation at all.

I know... didn't you see what I said about it? Brute force? All they've done is preload ~100 images of the background at different scroll points. Then they play it back based on your x-pos. It's the exact same thing as pre-rendering. That's how they got a lot of 3D in the 16bit days, and how most backgrounds in FF7 worked.

I'm not a fan because I like self contained solutions with math, but I can't deny it's a perfectly viable method and the pros still use it to this day. If you were crazy enough to preload a copy of every pixel by pixel position, it would be just as smooth as the real thing. You could even do it in multiple layers to give true physical depth. Still not my technique of choice.

About replicating this in OpenBOR, it won't work like it works in Mugen because we have Bilinear interpolation.  And if you pay attention to the walls, you will notice they aren't a single image deformed - they are multiply pieces.

I am not saying its not doable in openbor, but it won't work 100% like it works in mugen.

It's true, we don't have bilnear, but we DO have delta. It's just not called the same thing. I should make a demo just for fun, but right now I have something else cooking up, hopefully show it tomorrow...

DC
 
Never thought about bilinear interpolation for OpenBOR at all. Delta was the only thing I ever thought about every time it came to parallax. (I hope it's not watermode, set with 3. LOL)

DC, please, if you ever have time to make a demo of it, do so. :) I'm always curious about how delta is used. ;)
 
Thanks so much.... Damon Caskey, I really appreciate the information. And thank you OIlusionista I couldn't seem to tag you correctly the space or something won't let me lol. I agree 100% I have always been a big advocate of artists and creator rights and respecting their wishes as to how their work is used.  Most of the art I have selected has come from Spriter's resource and some say use to credit or some say you don't have to credit but I am going to credit everyone regardless. As a matter of fact I wanted to credit Chrono Crash because I couldn't have learned what I have learned so far without everyone here at the community .Even some members I'd like to credit just because for helping me me maintain the confidence to stay with it. I have learned to extract on my own CP3's using Final Burn Alpha and actually got some shots I had not  seen before, I saw a different version previously on pin interest I think? But I just found this one yesterday. Probably out of my league to attempt learning how to do that process. I just love the color of the brick tho I might just try to remove the layers and get a still frame from Final Burn Alpha, I could settle for that. Beautiful art nonetheless. One good thing about that game is the passwords system.

Thanks guys!  :) :)
     
         
 
About replicating this in OpenBOR, it won't work like it works in Mugen because we have Bilinear interpolation.  And if you pay attention to the walls, you will notice they aren't a single image deformed - they are multiply pieces.

I am not saying its not doable in openbor, but it won't work 100% like it works in mugen.

It's true, we don't have bilnear, but we DO have delta. It's just not called the same thing. I should make a demo just for fun, but right now I have something else cooking up, hopefully show it tomorrow...

DC
[/quote]

Damon Caskey, thanks for the info, i hope i can find the demo of the video you posted so i can study the script -

That said,  was wondering if you could share an "scripted version" of what Openbor does by default when it comes to the mode 7 effect, this way, by playing around with the values we might be able to achieve the vertical effect by changing just a few lines.

the screen idea sounds good but it seems that its a lot of work for what may be just a few adjustments with scroll related values.

(i cant even remember how to do walls & floors in Mugen anymore)

I hope the next release actually features vertical "mode 7" out of the box like MUGEN does...
 
O Ilusionista said:
...

Alice is one of the best stage creators we have - even I cannot fully understand what she does, it's above my league in stage standards. o_O

She does Awesome work, to convert some of the stages to widescreen was a pain tho, that distortion thing does not help either in IKEMEN
her tutorial & her formulas are hard to understand.

By the way she also struggled with the "curb" distortion issue, one of her stages features a very complex multilayer trick to hide the distortion when players jump up & down, or with zooms & there is a tutorial on how to do it too.

the only issue i have with the solution is that its almost like you are coding a pre-rendered animation frame by frame (the file for that stage is looooooong)
so ti is one of those cool stages that i did not use because its very hard to code in wide-screen.

One thing that i can say for Openbor is that from what i have seen , it does not suffer the distortion thing, it seems to "turn" the sprites in to angled polygons
 
oldyz said:
Damon Caskey, thanks for the info, i hope i can find the demo of the video you posted so i can study the script

Huh? What demo? I never said anything about an existing demo. I said I want to make one, but I'm buried in about a dozen other things right now. As yet, there isn't any such thing.

That said,  was wondering if you could share an "scripted version" of what Openbor does by default when it comes to the mode 7 effect, this way, by playing around with the values we might be able to achieve the vertical effect by changing just a few lines.

I already did. I can't dig it up from a phone, but it's somewhere in bWWd's He-Man thread. There isn't much to it. OpenBOR has a native affine effect built in - there's no scripting, and it isn't some secret trick. You just need to learn how to adjust the "watermode" and you'll have a basic affine transformation, and you have have as many layers as you like with it. With a bit of creativity you can make a variety of 3D style stages. Now to add vertical walls like what Alice did you'll need to get trickier. I can't tell you exactly how because I've only worked it out in my head and there are inevitably adjustments once thought is put to action, but I can tell you it's possible. As said above, If I get time, I'll work up a demonstration.

DC
 
Currently openbor allows only horizontal perspective changes with mode7 so its not possible.
I mean it is if you will use only 1 line for each bglayer on x axis * resolution and y axis * resolution , but thats just ingenious as hell and not fun to plan out(dumb).
So all we can do is create floors and ceilings with perspective and straight walls , simple flat layers without perspective and space them on z field applying different scrolling speeds  to get some illusion of depth.We cant do walls with perspective.Maybe future will bring that in.
 
bWWd said:
Currently openbor allows only horizontal perspective changes with mode7 so its not possible.

You're forgetting screens bWWd. Like I said above, I haven't built a full stage, but I did test using a screen to rotate an fglayer with affine transformation enabled, and it works perfectly. The result was really messy but that's because I just wanted to see if it ran or not. Bit of pre-planning and cleanup you'd have wicked looking Y axis walls.

Also keep in mind that both fglayers and screens can be moved in real time, and unlike the transformation effects themselves it's not expensive at all to do. That would give you the warping 3D style wall/columns. It's a ton of math to work out so everything lines up right, but no different than setting up platforms and physical walls.

DC
 
Damon Caskey said:
Huh? What demo? I never said anything about an existing demo. I said I want to make one, but I'm buried in about a dozen other things right now. As yet, there isn't any such thing.

That said,  was wondering if you could share an "scripted version" of what Openbor does by default when it comes to the mode 7 effect, this way, by playing around with the values we might be able to achieve the vertical effect by changing just a few lines.

I already did. I can't dig it up from a phone, but it's somewhere in bWWd's He-Man thread. There isn't much to it. OpenBOR has a native affine effect built in - there's no scripting, and it isn't some secret trick. You just need to learn how to adjust the "watermode" and you'll have a basic affine transformation, and you have have as many layers as you like with it. With a bit of creativity you can make a variety of 3D style stages. Now to add vertical walls like what Alice did you'll need to get trickier. I can't tell you exactly how because I've only worked it out in my head and there are inevitably adjustments once thought is put to action, but I can tell you it's possible. As said above, If I get time, I'll work up a demonstration.

DC

I meant the rocket viper game - if i can understand the script i might be able to finally do the stage components i needed -

that said , even Toy story on the genesis had to use scroll-animated sprites for vertical things, because the game could not generate vertical "mode 7"

i will check out what you mentioned of the He-Man demo & see if i can make it work.

I d have a concern tho: MUGEN can combine the "mode 7" effects & animation at the same time (for an example, think Balrog's Vegas stage in SF2, with the floor that animates)

So i was wondering what would be the method to make entity type sprites WITH the distortion (so they can animate)...
is there a extended method/additional scripting to make use of"drawmethod" that can skew/deform the sprites?

that would be the way to go in a"brute" fashion - a combination of the rocket viper animation-by-scroll script & drawmethod deformation of sprites...
 
I was having a real problem and maybe I wasn't ending the levels right....when I got the Fire level right in terms of height and everything I realized I had it it more like 2D because all of a sudden my crouch animation worked when I hit down....which was cool to see it....but I was trying to stay with 2.5 D method. I used the crypt for the Wizard although he will probably be in a different environment. It has been a challenge cause I want it to be 2.5 just like the fire level but I "ain't" quite got it right lol.

oldyz not sure what I did wrong my Wizard's orbs looks great I have a green one and a blue one but can't get the movement inside to work..it's 72 frames. I made it an enemy entity instead of an effect but in the future I wanted Leo (my player character) to be able to cut or deflect them with his sword if possible. Since I intended the battle to be the end of the game I really want to make the wizard have some great powerful attacks methods. I liked the idea of having(the lights strobe) them float or levitate around the Wizard. I have some great sprites with his staff pointed in multiple angled directions and I thought I could slightly alter them with photo software rotation since the orbs remain on their axis in order for the trajectory to be accurate.  The player even has some great pain reactions if hit, just going to take some tricky thinking. First I really need to get the lights to move though.
 
Wombat2112

download debug mode Wax, with this program you can do animations with multilayers of PNG's, & after that you can encode your animations & upload to youtube

the purpose of this , is so you can show us previews of what you want the sprite animations to look like -
WAX is freeware & it will take you a bit to learn, but by working with the layers & dealing with transparencies & such , you can actually use almost the same values for your mods.

Now if you have money you can use vegas or aftereffects to do those previews, either way, with experience in those video compositing programs, you can even make the WEBMs for cutscenes.

Personally i not the type to share previews of things because i want all updates to be a surprise, but sometimes you have to do it so people can help you better undestand what you are trying to do.

a preview does not have to have all of the frames of a final result & photoshop & aftereffects feature styles, styles in anutshell is this:

i draw a red line:

__________________________

well, the "styles" turn this red line - almost automatically , into a "lightsaber" effect if you adjust a few parameters - after that you convert the effects into layers with alpha values of their own & once you learn how the parameters and values work , you can experiment how those values for the transparency are created in Openbor...
 
oldyz said:
oldyz 

download debug mode Wax, with this program you can do animations with multilayers of PNG's, & after that you can encode your animations & upload to youtube

Awesome! Thanks!



"Now if you have money you can use vegas or aftereffects to do those previews, either way, with experience in those video compositing programs, you can even make the WEBMs for cutscenes. "

That's cool..I must admit I had no idea the potential for OB, I certainly am open to purchasing anything that might might assist me with making significant possibilities.

"Personally i not the type to share previews of things because i want all updates to be a surprise, but sometimes you have to do it so people can help you better understand what you are trying to do.

"a preview does not have to have all of the frames of a final result & Photoshop & aftereffects feature styles, styles in a nutshell .."

oh I don't mind at all showing sharing anything I might consider using and always welcome criticism and input.... it's always a plus benefit and a good chance to grow, learn and hopefully better any projects and see if it will work out.  I'm sure it will be quite sometime before I would be ready to release anything - never know could be year or even longer when you tackle these kinds of project on your own and what kind of time can be put into. Since the game I chose had 4 playable characters it would great to explore each possibly in a series of mods with a limited number of levels. I spent about 6 to 8 weeks gathering resources and continue to do so. Although I would love to work as with others especially those more experienced with OB as it would be a great opportunity.  Here is a link to the original image before I took care of the background and broke it down and variation of color I made (blue)

giphy.gif

giphy.gif




  I have a great game build on a flash drive thousands of console and arcade titles and today I was going through the menu for a fresh new play. I use a great program some have heard of it some haven't...but it allows you to original add box, publisher details, year released etc...it's called "Skraper." and it's freeware.... I came across a game I vaguely remember "Thunder Heroes" I don't think it reached any pinnacles of the time but it has some nice mechanics engineering.  The orbs used in game for power, health, etc. look pretty good and I would be open to the idea of using something similar. I completed the game in around an hour or so and I thought it was a great addition to the arcade world....it was fun and a nice approach.
 
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